‘Has then our mind,’ he says, ‘power of such quality and such strength, or could one grasp Him more quickly by perception of the senses? Or can man’s mind ever see God if it be not beautified by the Holy Spirit?’
‘Yes, for Plato says,’ I replied, ‘that the eye of the mind is itself of such a kind, and has been given us for this purpose, that we are able by that pure eye unaided to see clearly that very thing, BEING, which is the cause of all things that are within the province of understanding, and has no colour, no shape, no size, no anything that eye can see. But this very BEING, he says, a BEING beyond all essence, not to be expressed in words, nor to be described, but alone noble and good, is suddenly implanted within well-born souls because of their kinship with It and their longing to behold It.’
‘What kinship then,’ said he, ‘have we with God? Or is also the soul divine, and immortal, and part of that sovereign mind of which you speak? And as this sees God, can we also thus attain to grasp the divine with our own mind, and thenceforward at once enjoy happiness?’
‘Assuredly,’ I said.
‘Then have all the souls throughout all living things capacity for it, or is there one soul of man, and another of horse and ass?’
‘No,’ I answered, ‘the same souls are in all.’
‘So then,’ he says, ‘even horses and asses will see God, or did see Him at some time or other?’
‘No,’ I said, ‘nor even most human beings, but only one who were to spend his life aright, cleansing himself by righteousness and every other virtue.’
‘So,’ said he, ‘it is not for his kinship that he sees God, nor because he is mind, but because he is temperate and righteous.’
‘Yes,’ I said, ‘and because he has that wherewith he can intelligently perceive God. ’
‘But, in that case, do goats or sheep act unjustly towards any one?’
‘Not at all, towards any one,’ said I.
‘So according to your argument,’ he says, ‘even these animals will see?’
‘No, for their body, being what it is, hinders them.’
‘If these animals received the power of speech,’ said he in reply, ‘be assured that they would much more reasonably find fault with our body. But let us now leave it at that, and let what you say be granted. But tell me this: Does the soul see while it is in the body, or when it is released therefrom?’
‘Even while it is in human form,’ I say, ‘it is possible for this to happen to it through the mind, but chiefly when it is set free from the body, and is by itself alone, does it acquire that which it was passionately desiring all the time with all its heart.’
‘Would you say then that it remembers this vision of God when it is again in a man?’
‘I hardly think so,! I said.
‘Then what advantage have the souls that once saw, or what more has he who saw than he who saw not, if he does not remember this bare fact that he saw God?’
‘I cannot tell,’ I answered.
‘And the souls judged unworthy of this vision — what do they suffer?’ said he.
‘They are enfettered within certain bodies of wild beasts, and this is their punishment.’
‘Do they know then that this is the cause of their being in such bodies, and that they committed some sin?’
‘I do not suppose so.’
‘Then they do not even gain any advantage from the punishment, as it seems, and I should not say that they are even punished, if they do not apprehend it as punishment. ’
‘Certainly not.’
Then the souls neither see God, nor migrate into other bodies. For they would know that they are being punished in this way, and would be afraid to commit even the slightest sin afterwards. But that they can understand that there is a God, and that righteousness and piety are good, I too agree,’ he said.
‘You are right,’ I replied.